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  • Feb. 20th, 2016
  • xax: purple-orange {11/3 knotwork star, pointed down (Default)
    [personal profile] xax
    • Current Music: The Mountain Goats - Mercy For The Diaz Brothers
    posted @ 01:26 pm

    this is not exactly a new realization but: so everyone talks about how dark souls has this sense of space and location and connectedness, and a lot of the time the way people say that is like "if you can see something, you can go there" -- all those connected bits, like seeing blighttown from firelink shrine, or darkroot garden from the undead burg, or whatever. but i think in practice that's not anything unusual -- any big "open world" game gives you, basically, the same situation: you can see places from other places. what's interesting about dark souls is that you basically never travel in a straight line from one place to another. you'll see some vista with a big landmark in the distance, and then go inside and crawl around aimlessly, and then when you eventually pop back out you look around to reorient yourself and, oh, you're right under that big landmark! and now that place you were is basically just another big landmark in the distance.

    (this is also a thing in demon's souls and bloodborne; there are all these landmarks you can recognize, but you basically never travel for any period of time with them directly in view -- you travel without much of a sense of the surroundings, and occasionally step out onto vistas where you can see your progress abruptly, and all your routes are extremely circuitous.)

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    • snao: (Default)
      [personal profile] snao
      posted @ 07:41 pm (UTC)

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      So, this is something that actually bothered me, structurally about Firewatch... because I was SORTA expecting Eidolon, which is a very very open game where it's easy to get lost. It approximates the wilderness pretty accurately... whereas Firewatch is more or less set up as a series of paths, valleys, and routes that rarely, if ever.. wind back in on eachother within each 'chunk' of blind spots.

      Whereas in Eidolon, you didnt appear on your map with your compass, and even in wide open fields, it was VERY EASY to get lost.. because everything looked the same.

      Landmarks were very rare, and you could walk over the same area several times and not recognize it because of approaching it from so many different directions. Vistas were very rare, and because of how massive the world was, often not useful for short-term navigation...

      So yeah. idk.

      From a "FUN" standpoint, designing more hub-like, and pouring more character into each hub without a vast, samey sea between them makes it so easy to navigate that ya can do it with your eyes closed and rapidly reflect on the places you've been.

      The Witness kinda does it, too. Very easy to memorize the routes of the setting.

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    • xax: purple-orange {11/3 knotwork star, pointed down (Default)
      [personal profile] xax
      posted @ 10:44 pm (UTC)

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      yeah that's one of the things i've been thinking about as i sketch out procedural generation ideas -- if you want "a landscape", it's pretty easy to make one that's vaguely geologically accurate, and big, and that means it's probably going to be a lot of wide open areas without any meaningful landmarks. but that's less "fun", in that it... directs the player's attention less? it's a kind of low-intensity landscape.

      modern game design (or game design generally, i suppose) is a lot more about... setpieces and angles and vistas and big obvious landmarks to orient yourself; not really 'realistic', just, more engaging in a game-y kind of way.

      in dark souls & bloodborne a lot of the town areas are designed to "seem like a real town" in a lot of ways, except then you actually think and it's like, wait, no, it's a town where to get to the outside of the building you're inside you have to climb up to the roof, walk across two bridges, down a stairway, and through a tiny alleyway? what?? that's not how towns work! but making everything hub/spoke diagrams with a lot of circuitous paths is, actually, more fun and engaging than just being able to walk in a nearly-straight line from anywhere to anywhere else, even though it's a weird game contraivance.

      and it's kind of annoying from a design perspective, b/c like... there are also a bunch of advantages (linearity, directness of flow, etc) to making maps like that. but then they're ultimately always gonna be weird game spaces that don't make any sense when compared to reality, rather than anything more honest.

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